Fatigue
Over the past week or so since I published The Other Side of 10:52, I have grown increasingly more lost and hopeless in my pursuit of Truth. For all that warned me that this would be the case, well, you told me so. I give up. I say this not to be dramatic, but to make it clear that the rationality I so proudly display on this blog is most certainly balanced out by an equally strong emotional and spiritual counterpart. Since Jaco and I wrote The Nature of Logic and Emotion Regarding Human Action, I have enthusiastically sought to keep these two elements in a harmonic, symbiotic balance. (My success in this process could certainly be disputed.) But though I value them and in reality pay great attention to them, I do not frequently write about emotions, because I find it is much more difficult to express emotional concepts without sounding like either a total woos or an unstable, attention-seeking explosion of teenage angst. Neither are things I'd like to be, to state the obvious.
I feel that it is appropriate at this time to note that this process- the process of rejecting Christianity, the process of trying to rework my faith in it- has been pure hell for me. I repeat for emphasis: pure hell. My entire life is centered around Christianity. (And rightfully so. I am tempted to say that at the very least, I am glad not to have lived the last five years in total hypocrisy.) Having been so crucially occupied with that faith for so long, I have no idea how to cope being outside of it. Indeed, I have been told continually for my entire life that it is impossible to function properly outside of Christianity, no questions asked. But the reason I am not functioning properly right now is that I know absolutely nothing other than life within Christendom. There have been so many devastating realizations for me in the last week that I have realized I simply cannot bear such a drastic worldview shift at the speed I am taking it, whether it be valid or not. These realizations come in both big and small packages, but I've found the small ones to be just as crippling as the larger ones. What is Christmas? I love Christmas and all that it represents: I absolutely cherish the opportunity to see God's love brought to Earth, God's existence made applicable to humanity. What is Easter? Every year since 2006 it has been a mind-blowing illustration of God's power and purpose to me. What is communion? Can I take it, should I take it, can I let it just be a ritual to make it look like I haven't changed, can I find some other significance for it, is it too utterly disrespectful to the Church to take it at all? What do I feel about seeing crosses, all the crosses, all over the place? How do I feel about song, after song, after song, where I have to be intentional about NOT singing the parts the new worldview doesn't fit with? How do I lead Christian people in worship, is that even ethically correct? How do I even know that God is Grace and Mercy? How do I know God has an ultimate purpose? How do I know that souls are separate entities? How do I believe in any specific kind of afterlife, if any at all? There is a plethora of things that are crucial to my understanding of the not just God but the Universe that aren't taught outside the Bible. There is no doctrine, there is no authority, there is no wisdom. That's why people end up here: they like it that way. I am able to believe those things only because they're inherent to the God of Christianity, the God I've been programed to believe in since Day One.
This is certainly not the type of message I would normally put in a blog post, but it seems appropriate to announce it with the same enthusiasm as my last post: I cannot reject Christianity. I cannot go this far. Not only because it is destroying me psychologically to try, but because there are some unavoidable problems with the alternative, just as I see in Christianity. I do not understand for the life of me who exactly Jesus was, “and is, and is to come.” But I want so much to believe that he is what Christianity claims he is, I want so much to be part of the Church, that I simply cannot leave. At least, not yet. I recognize that the threat of psychological ruin is not the right reason to choose a certain set of beliefs; I hope to fix that, someday soon. Christianity has been alive and running for such a long time that I figure there must be tons of brilliant theology done on the topics of Biblical inspiration and Christ's divinity that I have simply yet to encounter. I am not well enough educated on either side to make this decision intellectually. But for the mean time, this hurts too much to go through with in its entirety. My whole Christian life, I have been told never to question God or to test God, but instead to follow Him with reckless abandon; well, here I am, I am questioning God. I am testing Him, because there is no feasible alternative. This post, my decision to remain within Christianity and to reject what I have been considering for the past week, is a giant
W T F ? ! ? !
thrown in the face of God, tacked onto all I feel He has told me the past year. It must be that way because, firstly, God is telling me to do all this if I have ever known God at all; and secondly, I cannot understand for the life of me why he would take me here: this is supposed to be the direction leading AWAY from him. I hardly even know whether I'm understanding him correctly. I remain convicted that I would abandon Christianity if God told me again and again and again that I need to leave, but now it seems just as unrealistic to me that I could know enough about Him to follow him without Christianity as it seems that Jesus would rise from the dead or that the Bible is God's Holy Word. Now before you all call me out on hypocrisy, I am not arguing the “fear of the unknown” tactics I spoke out against so fiercely last week; I have considered plenty whether He exists at all or not. I believe Atheism to be an almost ludicrously false path to take. I won't go into my reasons for believing that now. But I find myself entirely lost in the process of trying to figure out how to build my relationship with him, now that I'm finally at peace with him again. That's the ironic part of this process: rejecting Christianity has brought me closer to God than I have ever been. I am stripped of all extraneous spiritual comfort, all false security. Unfortunately, that also means I am emotionally unsettled; in just the past week, I have nearly broken down crying during worship services five or six times, not to mention at totally random points in class. I am utterly overwhelmed with the struggle God has presented me. But I am certainly not bitter, and I am certainly not angry, though I am as confused and hurt as I have ever been. The confusion and hurt is the very thing that has brought me back to him. There is no one, no thing, no book, no image, no person or action or place I can find security in but Him. At least in the philosophical sector of my mind, nothing at all has been left. He has stripped me naked. (As an aside: a year or two ago while preparing for the annual Mexico Mission my youth group goes on, a leader challenged us to think of the one thing in your life that would be the hardest to give up and then give it to God. I felt horribly arrogant admitting it to myself, but there was truly nothing I could think of that would be truly unbearable to give up except Jesus, nothing I would rebel against him for except that. I highly doubt that I seriously wouldn't have found anything else unbearable, but I sort of sighed out of relief that this would be the one thing God would never ask me to give up. I find it horribly ironic that he has. Perhaps it's some strange testament to my faith that I'm not in rebellion?)
Though the lesson is a valuable one in and of itself, I'm not psychologically prepared to sacrifice Christianity just to continue on with that lesson. Yes, first and foremost, I am dedicated to Truth- if He continues to tell me over and over and over again that this is indeed the path I need to take, I will turn back onto this road. But for the mean time, I am relying on pure, irrational, unreasonable, unsteady BLIND FAITH. For the mean time, I see no viable option but to accept that Jesus of Nazareth was fully God in the form of a man, and that he was born and lived to teach and to die so that we wouldn't have to suffer. I believe that in some strange and highly improbable process, he defied natural laws and came back to life after having been dead for three days, and ascended into heaven by defying some more natural laws. That by some crazy process, something or other happened in the writing and/or compilation of the books in the Bible, and there is something distinct and special and authoritative about it. There is absolutely no reason for me to believe any of these things- except, perhaps, my faith in God, and the fear that I might lose him in the process of trying to love him better.
I feel that it is appropriate at this time to note that this process- the process of rejecting Christianity, the process of trying to rework my faith in it- has been pure hell for me. I repeat for emphasis: pure hell. My entire life is centered around Christianity. (And rightfully so. I am tempted to say that at the very least, I am glad not to have lived the last five years in total hypocrisy.) Having been so crucially occupied with that faith for so long, I have no idea how to cope being outside of it. Indeed, I have been told continually for my entire life that it is impossible to function properly outside of Christianity, no questions asked. But the reason I am not functioning properly right now is that I know absolutely nothing other than life within Christendom. There have been so many devastating realizations for me in the last week that I have realized I simply cannot bear such a drastic worldview shift at the speed I am taking it, whether it be valid or not. These realizations come in both big and small packages, but I've found the small ones to be just as crippling as the larger ones. What is Christmas? I love Christmas and all that it represents: I absolutely cherish the opportunity to see God's love brought to Earth, God's existence made applicable to humanity. What is Easter? Every year since 2006 it has been a mind-blowing illustration of God's power and purpose to me. What is communion? Can I take it, should I take it, can I let it just be a ritual to make it look like I haven't changed, can I find some other significance for it, is it too utterly disrespectful to the Church to take it at all? What do I feel about seeing crosses, all the crosses, all over the place? How do I feel about song, after song, after song, where I have to be intentional about NOT singing the parts the new worldview doesn't fit with? How do I lead Christian people in worship, is that even ethically correct? How do I even know that God is Grace and Mercy? How do I know God has an ultimate purpose? How do I know that souls are separate entities? How do I believe in any specific kind of afterlife, if any at all? There is a plethora of things that are crucial to my understanding of the not just God but the Universe that aren't taught outside the Bible. There is no doctrine, there is no authority, there is no wisdom. That's why people end up here: they like it that way. I am able to believe those things only because they're inherent to the God of Christianity, the God I've been programed to believe in since Day One.
This is certainly not the type of message I would normally put in a blog post, but it seems appropriate to announce it with the same enthusiasm as my last post: I cannot reject Christianity. I cannot go this far. Not only because it is destroying me psychologically to try, but because there are some unavoidable problems with the alternative, just as I see in Christianity. I do not understand for the life of me who exactly Jesus was, “and is, and is to come.” But I want so much to believe that he is what Christianity claims he is, I want so much to be part of the Church, that I simply cannot leave. At least, not yet. I recognize that the threat of psychological ruin is not the right reason to choose a certain set of beliefs; I hope to fix that, someday soon. Christianity has been alive and running for such a long time that I figure there must be tons of brilliant theology done on the topics of Biblical inspiration and Christ's divinity that I have simply yet to encounter. I am not well enough educated on either side to make this decision intellectually. But for the mean time, this hurts too much to go through with in its entirety. My whole Christian life, I have been told never to question God or to test God, but instead to follow Him with reckless abandon; well, here I am, I am questioning God. I am testing Him, because there is no feasible alternative. This post, my decision to remain within Christianity and to reject what I have been considering for the past week, is a giant
W T F ? ! ? !
thrown in the face of God, tacked onto all I feel He has told me the past year. It must be that way because, firstly, God is telling me to do all this if I have ever known God at all; and secondly, I cannot understand for the life of me why he would take me here: this is supposed to be the direction leading AWAY from him. I hardly even know whether I'm understanding him correctly. I remain convicted that I would abandon Christianity if God told me again and again and again that I need to leave, but now it seems just as unrealistic to me that I could know enough about Him to follow him without Christianity as it seems that Jesus would rise from the dead or that the Bible is God's Holy Word. Now before you all call me out on hypocrisy, I am not arguing the “fear of the unknown” tactics I spoke out against so fiercely last week; I have considered plenty whether He exists at all or not. I believe Atheism to be an almost ludicrously false path to take. I won't go into my reasons for believing that now. But I find myself entirely lost in the process of trying to figure out how to build my relationship with him, now that I'm finally at peace with him again. That's the ironic part of this process: rejecting Christianity has brought me closer to God than I have ever been. I am stripped of all extraneous spiritual comfort, all false security. Unfortunately, that also means I am emotionally unsettled; in just the past week, I have nearly broken down crying during worship services five or six times, not to mention at totally random points in class. I am utterly overwhelmed with the struggle God has presented me. But I am certainly not bitter, and I am certainly not angry, though I am as confused and hurt as I have ever been. The confusion and hurt is the very thing that has brought me back to him. There is no one, no thing, no book, no image, no person or action or place I can find security in but Him. At least in the philosophical sector of my mind, nothing at all has been left. He has stripped me naked. (As an aside: a year or two ago while preparing for the annual Mexico Mission my youth group goes on, a leader challenged us to think of the one thing in your life that would be the hardest to give up and then give it to God. I felt horribly arrogant admitting it to myself, but there was truly nothing I could think of that would be truly unbearable to give up except Jesus, nothing I would rebel against him for except that. I highly doubt that I seriously wouldn't have found anything else unbearable, but I sort of sighed out of relief that this would be the one thing God would never ask me to give up. I find it horribly ironic that he has. Perhaps it's some strange testament to my faith that I'm not in rebellion?)
Though the lesson is a valuable one in and of itself, I'm not psychologically prepared to sacrifice Christianity just to continue on with that lesson. Yes, first and foremost, I am dedicated to Truth- if He continues to tell me over and over and over again that this is indeed the path I need to take, I will turn back onto this road. But for the mean time, I am relying on pure, irrational, unreasonable, unsteady BLIND FAITH. For the mean time, I see no viable option but to accept that Jesus of Nazareth was fully God in the form of a man, and that he was born and lived to teach and to die so that we wouldn't have to suffer. I believe that in some strange and highly improbable process, he defied natural laws and came back to life after having been dead for three days, and ascended into heaven by defying some more natural laws. That by some crazy process, something or other happened in the writing and/or compilation of the books in the Bible, and there is something distinct and special and authoritative about it. There is absolutely no reason for me to believe any of these things- except, perhaps, my faith in God, and the fear that I might lose him in the process of trying to love him better.
Marie - Blind faith is a dangerous thing. Think of Jim Jones telling all those cult members to drink poison in Guyana. They had blind faith and look what it got them. How can you believe in a God that would ask Abraham to kill his own son as a sacrifice? Should blind loyalty to God lead a man to commit evil, inhuman acts? Or is that simply blind faith?
ReplyDeleteBlind faith is what has been abused by organized religion thought the years to help lead the lambs (to slaughter?). It has been a promise of what some place that no one has seen holds. "Blind faith" is contemptible, the sign of a cult, becoming an unprincipled zombie that follows its programming (rites) and is trained to work as a part of the collective. Independent thought is not promoted and is generally regarded as blasphemous.
It is important for you to believe in what you see and what is in your heart. If you need to belong, then religiohn is for you, and believing makes it easier since it provides justification.
Do I believe in Jesus? Yes! Historically, there is no doubt he lived, he was a great guy (the muslims consider him a prophet), and was crucified by the Romans as were so many others. Was he the Christ? There does not seem to be any compelling evidence other than the words in the bible and they are at best suspect given their origins.
Cheers,
Yes, blind faith is bad, and believers need to have an understanding, but cults are a whole different cup of Kool-Aid.
ReplyDeleteI recognize the possible validity of what you've just said. 48 hours ago, I would have agreed with you. But the purpose of this post was to explain that I don't have the credibility to affirm or deny Christ's divinity on an intellectual level, so I am resorting temporarily to blind faith. I recognize that it is a very dangerous place to be, but I have no choice; whether I believe Jesus is God or not, both sides require some type of blind faith, and no other perspective seems even remotely viable to me at this stage. One is painful to be away from and the other is not, I desperately want to believe the one and the other I do not, I have a very deep love for the one and the other I don't give a hoot about, I'm already dedicated to Jesus and would like to maintain that, whereas there is awfully little to be dedicated to outside of Christianity. It's not a particularly difficult choice, looking at it through those eyes.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWrite a name or something man I would like to be able to name you other than anonymous.
Alright let's get started @Marie. Faith is blind. If everything can be quantifiably or reasonably explained then Faith has no point. You don't need to believe something that you know for a fact. That is not faith. After all "We live by faith and not by sight."
This doesn't mean disregard all intellect, in fact when it can be embraced embrace it. Use it when you can. However, sometimes your intellect is simply not enough. That's where faith steps in. When our minds fail we have our Faith. And when your life is in shambles, or your mind baffled or confused, remember that sometimes your mind is not enough. Faith is needed.
Marie don't be worn out by having to rely on your faith, that's good that you do. When your faith is needed that's when it grows stronger. Hopefully yours will.
Sincerely John L.
@Svenbjom J. Kool-Aid. To think such an innocent powdered drink would lead to so many deaths
ReplyDelete@John: reason is not antithetical to faith, it is complimentary. Revisit what I said about it in The Other Side of 10:52- faith is a willingness to believe in something that cannot be proved for certain, not a willingness to believe in something that is completely unlikely or impossible. Yes, there is a grey line between likelihood and unlikelihood, but the concept remains.
ReplyDeleteWhoever you are, mr. anonymous, you need to go out into the world and talk to actual Christians. You come out to condemn Christianity and then say that we all need to believe in what we see and what is in our hearts. That's what Christians do. All of your attacks on Christians are attacks on a straw man of actual Christians. If you disagree with the fact that you're making a straw man (which I assume you will), we can't continue any sort of conversation, because the Christianity you are attacking is not the Christianity that I nor Marie is defending.
ReplyDelete@Marie
ReplyDeleteI certainly hope you did not take what I said to mean antithetical. I merely suggested almost exactly what you said in your follow up post (although not as clearly as I may have liked, mainly because it was 10:45). Faith should be a fall back, a catch all. In some cases it wouldn't be blind, in others it's as blind as a bat.
@Michael I feel quite damaged by the fact that you did not include me in your circle of Chritianity defenders. :(. Also you like to claim straw man arguments everywhere, it getting tiring even though you are right.
@Anonymous Your knowledge of what is suspect or not is quite interesting. Apparently eyewitness accounts in the NT are suspect, where as you state the ancient story of Abraham as a fact about Christianity. Interesting indeed.
What you seem to be saying is that you do not have the fortitude to believe in your own judgement and as such would prefer to rely on the judgement of others until such a time you feel strong enough to form a belief system of your own (or chose not to believe). Sorry, but that seems to be a bit weak! If you want to believe, do so because of a well grounded conviction, not because it is the easy way out. Trust yourself and your internal compass. Do not rely on others telling you that you should or should not believe. Finally, do not resort to your belief being an "Insurance plan" so that if it happens to be you re covered.
ReplyDeleteCheers,
@Michael - There is no attack on christianity, merely a point of view from where a believe or non-believer may start from. Your failure to address the issue, a valid and oft discussed issue in religious study circles (University level), and in turn twist it around as an attack on christianity is rather naive and immature.
ReplyDeleteIf your choice is to remain christian, you must prepare to defend the faith in a logical and coherent manner, not just turn around and claim that a particular point being made (in this case that blind faith is probably not good) is an attack on your faith. If you do you will be sunk at every battle.
Marie has done a fine job of sticking to the issues and defended them in her writings. It is you who should take a step back and check yourself. I also find it interesting that your thoughts are that I am other than a christian.
Cheers,
@ Anonymous use a name least if you are going to enrage chang-a-lang. And watch his temper flare, it can get rather large.
ReplyDelete@Michael Anonymous already has talked to Christians, Michael, thats what he is doing here. After all he talked with you didn't he? And I must agree that your whole straw man thing is getting annoying quickly.
@Anonymous How is this not an challenge/attack on Christianity?
"Do I believe in Jesus? Yes! Historically, there is no doubt he lived, he was a great guy (the muslims consider him a prophet), and was crucified by the Romans as were so many others. Was he the Christ? There does not seem to be any compelling evidence other than the words in the bible and they are at best suspect given their origins. "
This and the rest of your post directly questioned the basis of Christianity, to say you were only providing an innocent viewpoint is invalid. This was a straight up cut at Christianity, or at very least a challenge. To say that Michael was acting immature (while he was) and then post what you just posted is ridiculous. Your attempt to deny that you had done anything but raise a viewpoint is itself immature. Stick to your words. Whether you are a Christian or not you issued a challenge and he hastily took up the call.
As for an Insurance plan, I'm glad you picked up on that, I found it an entertaining notion.
Sincerely.
@John L - If I am not able to defend my faith against such charges, how can I possibly justify the foundation of my own belief? If I am not ready to be questioned for what I believe, and then go on to defend it in a coherent and non-emotional manner that all others can respect, then how good is the foundation upon which I base my belief? How will my belief weather real storms as opposed to a minor shaking as we see here? I do not have to justify my belief but I should be able to defend it without resorting to personal attacks or relying on the old secret math proof "and then magic happens" to defend my faith.
ReplyDeleteI will sign up for a blog account so that I do not always appear as "anonymous" as it bothers me too.
Cheers,
@Michael - I am a little disappointed in your inability to take up a debate without getting emotional and lashing out at people. IT was clear in "On the other side of 10:52" that when you felt threatened, in lieu of comming back with facts and data, you resorted to attacking the person. Bad form. Look at how both John L and Claus drove to the point without attacking each other, instead focusing on the attack on the issues. You should do the same. Your retorts were personal and with a tone of arrogance that made you look pretentious. It makes you look weak and causes people to question how deep your conviction (or in this case, faith) really is. May I suggest taking up debate!
ReplyDeleteCheers,
Marie,
ReplyDeleteyou should go forth and seek the greatest value of your actions as it benefits humanity and the future of man-kind. Do not stop and worry about the issues of "belief" as they will ultimately not determine if you have an afterlife.
If we trust the notion that "god is a good god" regrdless of who he is (the christian god, allah, jewish god, vishnu etc.) then we know that he will make every effort to ensure that if you follow his directives (the 10 comandment are pretty much universally accepted as a good summary of gods teachings) then you will avoid eternal damnation (big fire, bad smell etc.).
Christianity is not the only way (if not, most of the world population will be heading down since christianity is a minority religion) and that is not what a kind and loving god would do.
If you take the opposite viewpoint as stated by Stephen Hawkin, then "A belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is but a 'fairy story' for people afraid of death", then your actions, if good enough will guarantee you eternal life (just as Golda Meier, Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Albert Einstein etc.).
Regardless, it is your behavior, not your belief, that ultimately guarantees you eternal life. The exact nature of it remains to be seen: will it be the eternal life that Stephen Hawkin will have (he will be remembered in literature) or will it be as per the preachers of modern religion (when you die you will rise from the dead and float about in eternity).
What you do and how you have a positive influence on the lives of people and animals, in science or the arts, or towards humanity is what really matters.
Cheers,
@Marié - “…without sounding like either a total woos or an unstable, attention-seeking explosion of teenage angst. “ Don’t worry about that. Your statement above shows a turbulent mind but not one that is unstable or attention seeking. You are working through a major life shift and there are many paths to choose from and much to learn.
ReplyDeleteAs you may have surmised from my previous comments, I’m not a fan of the organized religion, but that does not mean I reject it completely. First off, it exists whether I believe in it or not. Fact is that it has had, and still does, have a strong influence on history, laws, current events, etc… I reject certain beliefs as a result of information that I have read and events that have happened in my life.
With regards to the outright rejection of Christianity and your living a life of “hypocrisy” for the past five years. Why not ascribe that time to the education of Marié. Take your time to learn other paths. There is no need to reject Christianity if that is not your wish, (not that you should or shouldn’t do something/anything due to my say so) but an earnest attempt to learn other philosophies is not a rejection of your beliefs.
I don’t believe Christ was anyone other than what appears to have been a man that was persecuted for his beliefs. This is a personal belief that I hold but do not wish to press on anyone else. The idea of Christmas to me is one that has evolved over time and is, perhaps, hypocritical in some people’s eyes, but it works for me. It’s a time of Light, and Life and Love. I’m sure someone can tie it to the pagan rituals of the times prior to Christianity coming into vogue. Call it what you will, Kwanzaa, Christmas, Yule, etc.. but the time is ours, the planet’s population deserves a break from murder, mayhem, war, etc… and to take the time to heal. There are many such celebrations but THIS is a good time for a breather. Is it God? Don’t know nor will I ponder on it more than a moment. I’ll let the people with a faith in those things deal with that.
My daughters, my wife, my family are the most important thing to me on this planet and beyond. This time around the traditional Christmas holidays means time to recharge and spend time loving them and to spend time or effort on those that don’t get love through charitable work that we are normally too busy to do in our daily life keeping up w/ bills, mortgages, house maintenance…. To me this time is a time of thanksgiving to whatever is out that that you believe in whether it be a god, a tree, a flowing river, the Tao, etc…
God (in my opinion) is whatever it is you want it to be. Your faith is what defines it. It will evolve either towards or away from god in time. Allowing that change is something that may be difficult given your last five years, accepting it may even be more difficult. I don’t believe faith was meant to be static. The idea of god and faith seems to me to be dynamic, ever evolving, ebbing and flowing with time and the events and information in our lives.
I will not argue for or against Christianity as I was allowed to choose my own path, so should others. Know that whatever path you take, you should do so with all the information available to you at the time and then evaluate it with your heart & mind. Your faith in god and Jesus may grow stronger, as John L suggests, or it may move on to other things. Accepting change is part of life.
I am impressed by your courage to post your raw feelings out in such a public forum. It takes a lot of chutzpah to show the turmoil of your mind and I appreciate you sharing it. It’s good to question your beliefs, I do often, this is how they become stronger and evolve.
@ Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou are right in the sense that I am not arguing with you. When arguing with someone on a point, it requires that the two parties involved in an argument have some sort of a common ground. In a debate round, the first thing that is established are definitions. For without the same definitions, the argument cannot continue. This is why I completely dropped the argument. To attack/defend against you would be for me to accept the definitions you have already established.
I can't argue with you because when you say "Christian" it means a comepletely different thing than what I mean using the word "Chrisitian." Whether you or I are actually wrong really isn't the point. Practically speaking, it would be a waste of time for me and for you to debate if we don't agree on definitions first. That's why I didn't even bother debating with you.
Furthermore, I am not here on this website to debate. Rather, I am here to have a discussion. I'm not interested in winning arguments. In real life, such a goal is irresponsible for Christians.
You are not a Christian if you do not believe that Jesus is Christ. 1John Chapter 3 makes this abundantly clear. He is the one and ony begotten son of God (John 3:16).
Or, if you claim to be a Chrisitian while holding that Jesus is not the only begotten Son of God, then you are a heretic.
But for sure, you are not a Christian.
@ Michael
ReplyDeleteYou make my, John's and Clauses point so well, and then you reinforce it.
Cheers,
If the Trinity is true, then the Father's work must be revealed in Creation, the Son's death and resurrection must be found in history, and the Spirit must be validated Logically.
ReplyDeletesurprisingly (or not) they all are.
Anonymous, you have to read a little science, history, and philosophy bud. the immense amount of fallacies and lack of common knowledge (so as to a historian that is) really defeats all your own points.
i'd point you to William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith. it's quite scholarly but i think you need to be able to handle it...
Marie, you (surprising as it might be) are reinforcing the philosophical declaration that the Bible preaches within your highly emotional reactions. No other religion, philosophy, or confusion could possibly explain them without slipping into the truth the Spirit alone preaches.